Ask AdmissionsConsultants

[kdog]

Nobody said this was going to be easy. I am starting to wonder if it is going to be possible at all for me. All the counselors I have talked to have told me that with my qualifications I should be “a slam dunk” (famous last words, huh?). My friends all assure me that I’ll get in somewhere. Amazingly, I have proven all of them wrong.
At first glance I may look great on paper: 3.9 GPA in Electrical Engineering, 35R on the MCAT. But further investigation seems to raise some red flags. EE is my second degree, my first was in Mechanical Engineering and I only received ~3.5 GPA. I can only assume that admissions considers me a one-trick pony with an inflated GPA due to prior experience. Neither program was completed in the expected amount of time (I have explanations, but there was no space for that in the AMCAS application). Furthermore, I had a disastrous experience in a graduate program, probably the fatal blow even though it occurred a long time ago.
I applied to five schools, two in-state public. I felt the one and only interview I had went fairly well. The only actual feedback I received was in the form of a letter informing me I was being placed on the waiting list, the purgatory of med school applicants. Curiously, this letter arrived before they claimed were going to evaluate my group of interviewees.
I am at a loss. The weakest part of my application is extracurricular activities. I have a year of experience as an EMT-Basic and some volunteer activity at an annual charity event, but most of my time is consumed by parenting and maintaining a family. Is it too late to start seeking extracurricular activities even though it will clearly be after I am out of school and will look like I am throwing them in at the end (which I guess I am)?

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mingchi96

Any comments will be greatly appreaciated. thanks.

---

Your mean GPA will be calculated based on all postsecondary work, meaning any and all grades completed after you graduated high school. Simply, your junior college GPA of 3.0 will be factored into your senior college GPA of 3.6.

You have a chance of going to medical school. You’ve pulled a reasonably good GPA in a notoriously difficult major, though I don’t know what it comes out to when you calculate in the 3.0 from your junior college (probably something around 3.3).

Whether or not this is worth the risk is entirely up to you and how much you want to be a physician. You haven’t invested that much time into being a premed student because you still have more than half the courses to complete. The mean MCAT for matriculated students is 29-30.

Good luck.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by vinniethevole

I’m 26 years old, BS in Biology and Sociology (double major) from St. Lawrence University, 3.3 overall GPA, 2.8 science, 1300 SAT, haven’t taken the MCATs.

My questions were: Do I have a reasonable chance at getting into medical school? I still have to take OChem 1&2 and Physics 2, so I will have a chance to improve my overall science GPA.

Second: What do you think the AdComs will make of the Massage Therapy diploma and certification? Will it be an asset (huge background in anatomy and palpation), or will it be a hindrance (allopathic medicine is only just recognizing the potential benefits of clinical massage)?

---

The data on matriculants to medical school show that the average accepted medical student will have cumulative GPAs of 3.56, science GPAs of 3.55, and an MCAT of 29-30. Based on these numbers, you’re a little behind the eight-ball. Further data on how certain majors do in the admissions process show that Biology majors, who make up the large majority of premed students (followed by Chemistry), sport a 33-35% acceptance rate. This is compared to 30% for Psychology and 67% for Mathematics, or Physics, or Engineering.

Your Massage Therapy diploma/certificate will neither be an asset nor be a demerit on your application. The “huge background on anatomy and palpation” may seem like an advantage, but Gross Anatomy is such a small portion of the medical school curriculum now that a lot of medical schools are moving toward shortening the course further. An example: when I was a first-year medical student, we had four students per cadaver and did all the dissection ourselves. When my brother was a first-year medical student, just two years after me, they had eight students per cadaver and the dissections were carried out by the anatomy faculty.

As for allopathic medicine’s recognition of the potential benefits in clinical massage therapy, that may be true, but widespread acceptance of such a thing is still many, many years away.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kdog

Nobody said this was going to be easy. I am starting to wonder if it is going to be possible at all for me. All the counselors I have talked to have told me that with my qualifications I should be “a slam dunk” (famous last words, huh?). My friends all assure me that I’ll get in somewhere. Amazingly, I have proven all of them wrong.

---

You point out some things that may have killed your application. Without more data, I can’t really comment on what exactly hurt your chances this year. If you’d like, you may want to speak with one of our consultants and retain him or her for our Ding Analysis service, where he or she will pinpoint the item(s) on your application that got your rejected.

Good luck.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[californialove]

(Sorry if this is choppy but I’m trying to make it short to avoid being deleted)
Junior, Biology, Stanford
Placed out of Chem 31 (genchem) with AP Score of 4
Poor grades in Chem 33 and 130 (1st, 2nd qtrs ochem, got NP for both, retook both for B+ and C-), Math 21 (3rd qtr calc, got C-, plan to retake), BioSci 41 (1st qtr bio, got D, retook for B+), withdrew from BioSci 118 (genetics) and Chem 135 (pchem)
Adjusted GPA: 3.2
Experienced severe financial troubles (am a poor Mexican immigrant), could not pay last 2 qtrs until recently, as a result was forced to withdraw from BioSci 118 and Chem 135).
Experienced 3 deaths in the family in the past 2yrs, severe depression for the past year for which I am now seeing a counselor, taking medication and doing very well.
Poor grades and retakes happened before my rehabilitation.
Have done research at a Stanford Med School lab for over a year, will have published at least 2 papers by the end of my UG career and an honors thesis (for which I received a $5000 grant).
Have been accepted to/attended two competitive study abroad seminars.
Have not taken MCAT but have 1500 SAT.
Done study abroad in South Africa in HIV/AIDS-related volunteer work.
Plan to work in infectious diseases in major urban populations if I become a doctor.
Plan to intern/study abroad in a clinical setting for at least 2 years before applying to med school.

My question is: Given these circumstances and the difficulty of a Stanford courseload, will they weigh heavily (positively or negatively) in the eyes of an admission committee given that I am markedly improving upon my past and can offer explanations for my past, or will I not be as thoroughly reviewed based on statistical qualifications? What can I do (before or after graduating from Stanford) to supplement my chances of getting into say, Keck/USC or is this even a stretch? Thanks and again sorry for my long/choppy entry.

[ranjujha]

Dear AdmissionsConsultants,

My name is ranju, I am a nursing officer in indian army, I have done Bsc in nursing, Now i want to be an MD, which is my first dream,
I have heard there are some university in united states who have some kind of alternate courses for MD.
If yes plzz provide me all detail,
If not then plzz reply how can i take admission to any of the Med school to complete MD. will i get any benifits of my degree in taking admission, Acedimaically i have performed very good and i have more than 2 yrs of experience in nursing..

Thanks,
Ranju

ranju

[leb947]

Im going to be a freshman at Michigan State next year, and they dont have any traditional pre-med programs. I was wondering what you suggest I do (majors), and what GPA i should work for to get into U of M’s MED school.

Thanks

(and i want to be an orthopaedic surgeon)

[vinniethevole]

quote:

---

The data on matriculants to medical school show that the average accepted medical student will have cumulative GPAs of 3.56, science GPAs of 3.55, and an MCAT of 29-30. Based on these numbers, you’re a little behind the eight-ball.

---

Thanks first for taking the time to respond. What adjustments do you think would be valuable to my application? I still have Organic Chemistry and Physics II to take in the pre-med curriculum. Would 4.0’s in these improve my chances, or am I looking at a whole post-bacc program just to even be in the right ballpark? It bears noting that instead of taking the Chem and math minors that I had originally intended, I completed an entire second major (with considerably better grades than my bio degree).

The statistics about raw grades and MCAT scores are intimidating to someone like me, but I work with the largest Orthopedic group in Illinois and I find it hard to believe that every one of the M.D.s were fun-less academic robots in undergrad. I describe it this way because I had a neighbor in undergrad who shot himself after being rejected from medical schools. He had a 3.9+ GPA in a combined Biology/Chemistry major, but he didn’t have what it took in terms of personality to make it into med school.

I’ve read this entire thread and you keep mentioning how grades aren’t everything. This is hopeful to read, but how much will your personality and experience help you in the admissions process?

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by californialove

(My question is: Given these circumstances and the difficulty of a Stanford courseload, will they weigh heavily (positively or negatively) in the eyes of an admission committee given that I am markedly improving upon my past and can offer explanations for my past, or will I not be as thoroughly reviewed based on statistical qualifications? What can I do (before or after graduating from Stanford) to supplement my chances of getting into say, Keck/USC or is this even a stretch? Thanks and again sorry for my long/choppy entry.

---

There’s more to the application process than just grades and MCAT scores. It’s hard to get out of that mindset when you’re premed, but the truth is that med school AdComs will always look for the applicant’s motivation to study medicine in the form of extracurriculars, research, etc. You seem to have a long list of extracurriculars and can probably offer a compelling story that, if written well, can help mitigate some of the difficulties you’ve had academically.

Your science GPA, just strictly based on a quick calculation, seems dismal. You can help that science GPA by a good showing on the MCAT. If you managed to muster a 1500 on the SAT, then I’d guess you’d have little difficulty with an exam like the MCAT. I’d shoot for well oevr 30.

As for what else you can do, it’s pretty involved and I’d recommend talking with one of our expert admissions consultants about strategies to get into med school. Good luck.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ranjujha

I have heard there are some university in united states who have some kind of alternate courses for MD.
If yes plzz provide me all detail,
If not then plzz reply how can i take admission to any of the Med school to complete MD. will i get any benifits of my degree in taking admission, Acedimaically i have performed very good and i have more than 2 yrs of experience in nursing.

---

I’m not sure what you mean by “alternate courses” for the MD, though I suspect you may be thinking about osteopathic medicine (a DO degree), or a fifth pathway, or even some postbacc/graduate courses designed for premed students.

Giving all the details of each of these alternatives would be inappropriate. I’d suggest talking to one of our admissions consultants, who will be more than happy to talk to you about how you can become a physician in the United States.

Good luck.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by leb947

Im going to be a freshman at Michigan State next year, and they dont have any traditional pre-med programs. I was wondering what you suggest I do (majors), and what GPA i should work for to get into U of M’s MED school.

---

There hasn’t been a “premed major” since the 1980s. A premed program is a sequence of courses that the AAMC has decided should be prerequisites for applying to medical school. They include 1 year of Biology with lab, 1 year of General Chemistry with lab, 1 year of Organic Chemistry with lab, and 1 year of Physics with lab.

Some majors have a proven track record in having more success with med school admissions, but the data is a bit misleading. The partyline advice in our firm and with most premed counselors is major in something you like because that’s the only way you’ll do well (and that’s most important).

The University of Michigan Medical School is very competitive. Don’t spend your premed career worrying over numbers and MCAT scores as those aren’t the only things that matter. At Michigan, as well as at all medical schools in this country, perfect 4.0 GPAs with perfect 45 MCATs routinely get rejections. There’s a story of motivation that’s involved with your application to medical school, and it should be carefully engineered from Day No. 1.

Since you’re just starting off in college, I’d suggest talking to one of our admissions consultants and getting a premed strategy going. Talk to him or her about possible extracurriculars, research opportunities, and how to boost your chances of being admitted to med school. We also can talk to you about course selection — especially the sequence in which courses should be taken.

Good luck.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[californialove]

Thanks for your comments, Dr. Wu. I just have two quick questions regarding the comments you made to adidas32:

Dr. Wu: “Any repeated course would be considered a red flag. The fact that you have six of them gives your application a whole bunch of red flags. Despite this, however, I would still refrain from discussing this in the personal statement. It’ll come up at the interview and that’s when you should ideally talk about it.”

In all honesty, if you fail to explain this in your AMCAS, will some schools simply look at your transcript, laugh, and throw your application into the recycle bin? What if failure to explain this in the AMCAS or secondary/supplementary preludes you from even being offered an interview in the first place? The main thing I’m trying to get at with this question is: how thoroughly will “mid to top tier” schools (whatever that means, I know it’s subjective) consider students who, by numbers alone, are below average?

Dr. Wu: “I believe the AMCAS counts only the most recent grade for a given course into its calculations. So even if your repeated course grade is lower than it was initially, that’s the grade they’ll use to calculate your GPA. The AdComs, however, will notice when you repeat a course.”

I’m a little confused by this. Many sources make it sound like repeated courses are calculated into the GPA? Do they in fact not calculate them and take only your last course? Regardless of what the AMCAS calculates, do some or most schools recalculate the GPA based on their own criteria.

Thanks and hopefully the two questions I just asked will be of help to med school applicatns in general and not just to a particular circumstance.

[Kirsten]

I am a third year student at UCLA planning on applying to Medical School. I have a 4.0 GPA and have done several extracurricular activities, including volunteering and research. I was originally planning on taking the MCAT this April, but got stressed out with my current class schedule and decided to postpone it until August and perhaps wait a year to apply. I have now decided that I do not want to have to wait a year after graduating before starting Medical School, and am trying to decide between taking the MCAT this April and this August.

Everything I read online seems to strongly discourage waiting to take it in August if I am hoping to apply this summer. But I am worried that my MCAT score will not be as good as it could be if I try to take it this April considering I will basically start studying for it now, while still being enrolled as a full-time student. However, I would hate to wait until August and completely ruin my chances, if that would be the case.

Do Medical Schools consider your application even if the MCAT score is pending? Or do they not even ask for supplementary applications until they have the MCAT?

If anyone can give me some advice, I would really appreciate it. Thanks so much for your help.

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by vinniethevole

The statistics about raw grades and MCAT scores are intimidating to someone like me, but I work with the largest Orthopedic group in Illinois and I find it hard to believe that every one of the M.D.s were fun-less academic robots in undergrad. I describe it this way because I had a neighbor in undergrad who shot himself after being rejected from medical schools. He had a 3.9+ GPA in a combined Biology/Chemistry major, but he didn’t have what it took in terms of personality to make it into med school.

---

No one ever said everyone in medical school is a “fun-less academic robot.” In fact, they’re usually not. The applicants who are admitted to medical school are, almost universally, acadmemic juggernauts who have demonstrated the proper motivation to study medicine and who usually have likeable personalities (which the interview often helps to bring out).

Your personality may be great, but there are a lot of great personalities out there who also have made the grade and taken the right mix of activities to demonstrate a true interest in medicine.

If you’d like more comprehensive advice on how to enhance your med school applications, give us a call and speak to one of our expert admissions consultants.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[twu]

quote:

---

Originally posted by californialove

In all honesty, if you fail to explain this in your AMCAS, will some schools simply look at your transcript, laugh, and throw your application into the recycle bin? What if failure to explain this in the AMCAS or secondary/supplementary preludes you from even being offered an interview in the first place? The main thing I’m trying to get at with this question is: how thoroughly will “mid to top tier” schools (whatever that means, I know it’s subjective) consider students who, by numbers alone, are below average?

I’m a little confused by this. Many sources make it sound like repeated courses are calculated into the GPA? Do they in fact not calculate them and take only your last course? Regardless of what the AMCAS calculates, do some or most schools recalculate the GPA based on their own criteria.

---

Question #1: I routinely urge my clients to talk about their academic difficulties NOT in the personal statement, but in a supplemental letter addressed to the AdCom. The point is to not waste space on the personal statement to talk about academic problems when they’re out in the open on your application.

Question #2: The final GPA calculated, and that which is considered by the AdCom, will be the one which incorporates the most recent attempt at a repeated course. Despite this however an AdCom will not just stare at a GPA, which is a calculated mean, and not look at the entire transcript. Say someone takes Orgo 1 and gets a C, C, C, C, and then an A on the most recent attempt. AMCAS will take into account only that A in calculating the GPA, possibly giving the impression that this student is top-notch. On closer inspection, however, it’s obvious that the student’s real effort is in the C column and the A may be a fluke.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[Author]

Posts