To all the Michael Moore fans

[cartman]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127697,00.html

I didn’t see the movie and I don’t know who is telling the truth: Moore or the Saudis. Just wanted to see what your opinions were.

My opinion is I’m happy Moore didn’t go to Saudi and give them any of his American currency.

[y82benji]

I wouldn’t trust fox news any farther than I could throw a very very very large heavy unthrowable object.

I don’t have anything against Saudi Arabia and I don’t think the royals had anything to do with 9/11, although I wouldn’t be surprised if the 9/11 attack was partially due to the Bush administration’s particularly friendly relationship with the royals (Bin Laden doesn’t like the Saudi royal family). Definitely not the whole reason, but would probably contribute.

1.) However, in the U.S. juries and other investigative bodies never find someone or a group innocent, only not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. No evidence found is different than no evidence. So, they aren’t proven guilty, but that doesn’t mean they are innocent.

2.) Yessim (spelling?) bin Laden, a half brother of Osama, said in interviews that Saudi Arabia and US arranged to have his family (and others) taken out of the US quickly to avoid having them be persecuted by citizens/mobs for Osama’s acts. So there I don’t know what the royal family is disputing…

Moore didn’t state any specific conclusions, but he did his best to present the evidence needed to cast a very particular light on the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden family.

[Posc]

a very very very large heavy unthrowable object <– Good one! []

I won’t say Fox is perfect but they did report we were winning the war in Iraq while Communist News Newtork was reporting we didn’t have enough troops, supply lines were too long and we were falling into a Saddam trap near Baghdad.

Considering the problems in that region, the Sauds are the best ally we have after Israel even if htey are not perfect. Because we are a Judeo Christian country, because we have freedom, because we support Israel, because we are not Islamists, bin Laden would hate us anyway. Even still, shouldn’t matter what we did. Doesn’t make it right to kill innocents. I really HATE him and he can’t burn in h**l soon enough.

I will probably never see the 911 movie so I won’t comment on that specifically. (There are a lot of movies I never watch including comedies, horror, etc.)

I don’t like the Saudis either though. They are the birthplace of the terrorism that has NYC and DC on high alert. I am happy the terrorists they supported have turned on them. Just desserts if you ask me. [^]

Support terrorists. Vote Bush out of office.

[y82benji]

Eh, just my thought…

The Saudi Royal Family never really supported terrorists (at least not in the past two decades). The oil boom of 30-40 years ago brought a great deal of wealth to the area. As with any money though, it does not just bring simple monetary value but also brings cultural values too. Now that the “boom” phase is over, there is a large number of young people (anywhere from 15 to 35, I’d guess) that expect to be entitled to the same economic successes as their parents had under the oil boom without a great deal of work. In fact, something like 70% of college students in Saudi Arabia major in Islamic philosophy, a degree that makes them not very valuable as an employee because it has saturated its market. The result is a listless, unemployed population angry both at their parents, society, and especially western society which they see as the primary reason they now face hardship despite the fact that it is often their own choices that have led them to that. As a result religious extremists like Osama bin Laden have been able to recruit these people to terrorism because their educational training has focused exclusively on a militant islam and they have built up resentment of the powers-that-be. The only money the Saudi government pumps into this terrorism is money it uses to try to help control or pacify the many young persons who are so angry.

Regardless, the Saudi royal family is still probably a sketchy bunch. The fact is, we have contributed to the formation of terrorism, though much more through deeds that are not worthy of hatred (trading with Saudi Arabia, not being destitute, having a culture other than “Islam”) than through ill deeds (conflicting regime support, any unfair trading with the middle east, etc) and the Saudi contribution is about the same.

[Posc]

Here’s why the Sauds are getting what I believe they deserve.

1. They control the educational system. Dont’ let people major in militant Islam.

2. Stop teaching that Jesus returns at Armageddon, breaks the cross over his knee, converts the Christians to Islam and the larger Muslim pop wipes out the Jews. This is taught in moderate Saudi schools right here in teh US!

3. Stop teaching anti Semitism and recognize the right of Israel to exist.

4. Stop pacifying and exporting your extremist problems.

5. Stop letting so called charities fund suicide bombers adn other such terrorist activities.

If some mad scientist creates a terrible virus and then becomes infected himself, you shouldnt feel bad for him. No difference here with the Saudis as they are the birthplace of the terrorism now engulfing the whole world.

Support terrorists. Vote Bush out of office.

[y82benji]

Fair enough. I tend to take the approach that changes like that must be done gradually because to do them dramatically would spark a revolt and you’d lose the power to do that anyway, but at the same time I will agree that they certainly aren’t even moving slowly towards the things you mentioned. So yeah, they are sort of reaping what they sow.

[Posc]

You’re a cool guy and I respect your opinion. My thought htough is that the Saudi govt has been in power for a long time. It isn’t like they were elected in 1 year ago and they are moving slowly. They allowed this to happen in the first place over the last 60? 80? how many? years.

Support terrorists. Vote Bush out of office.

[page1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Posc

Here’s why the Sauds are getting what I believe they deserve.

1. They control the educational system. Dont’ let people major in militant Islam.

2. Stop teaching that Jesus returns at Armageddon, breaks the cross over his knee, converts the Christians to Islam and the larger Muslim pop wipes out the Jews. This is taught in moderate Saudi schools right here in teh US!

3. Stop teaching anti Semitism and recognize the right of Israel to exist.

4. Stop pacifying and exporting your extremist problems.

5. Stop letting so called charities fund suicide bombers adn other such terrorist activities.

If some mad scientist creates a terrible virus and then becomes infected himself, you shouldnt feel bad for him. No difference here with the Saudis as they are the birthplace of the terrorism now engulfing the whole world.

Support terrorists. Vote Bush out of office.

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Good point posc. I think we tend to feel sympathy or should I say pity towards the Saudis because they can’t even run their own country. But they are the birthplace of terrorism and they did allow charities to support the Taliban and those lovely Pakistani maddrasses. I won’t shed any tears if they are torn apart by self inflicted civil war. []

[y82benji]

quote:

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I won’t shed any tears if they are torn apart by self inflicted civil war. []

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Wow. Just wow. I should hope this isn’t sincere heartfelt sentiment. Wouldn’t even know where to begin if it were not…

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