Ask AdmissionsConsultants

[twu]

quote:

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Originally posted by futurepedplease

1)What is the difference between resigning and dismissal? (Will admission committees in the other medical schools be aware of my medical school failures)

2)I would like to start re-applying now. I feel that the problem was not in taking objective tests (multiple choice questions, because I passed those tests). But I had difficulty in subjectively graded essay exams. Would you recommend doing masters, PhD, or can I just start re-applying.

3)What are my realistic chances of getting into a medical school in U.S

4)What are my chances of gaining admissions to schools in Australia, Canada and Britain?

5) Other options to consider (osteopathic, dental school)

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1) “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” What Shakespeare wrote regarding labels and names applies to this situation in that whether the action taken against you was a “dismissal” or a forced “resignation,” the underlying reason for you having left medical school is poor academic performance. The medical school you apply to will ask for all your post-secondary education transcripts and, as it were, this includes your medical school transcripts. And as I’ve commented before, poor academic performance is almost always a red flag and your application would immediately be rejected.

2) I would not recommend re-applying. If your intention is to get a Masters or a PhD and then re-apply, I don’t think that will change the situation at all. The fact is you had a chance at medical school and failed out. The AdComs will be really turned off by that and my belief is that no AdCom would consider your candidacy. As I wrote to the other poster in a similar situation, your best bet is to attend a foreign medical school or an osteopathic medical school.

3) I do not feel you have any chance in getting into a United States Liaison Committee for Medical Education-accredited M.D. granting medical school. You can call each one of the 125 US LCME-accredited medical schools and ask — you may be surprised — but the policy of not taking another medical school’s burden (i.e., a former student who left because of poor academic performance) is pretty universal as I understand it.

4) Canadian medical schools are also accredited by the LCME and as such they have similar admissions standards and policies. I believe the Canadian medical schools, of which I think there are 16, would immediately reject your application. UK and Australian medical schools are a little more lenient toward US applicants, but I simply don’t know if they’d have a problem with your past academic difficulties. I would contact them and ask. Some schools you may want to consider include the Royal College of Surgeons, Ireland (in Dublin) and the University of New South Wales or Flinders University School of Medicine in Australia.

5) Osteopathic medical schools have a standard set of admissions policies. I’m familiar with osteopathic medical schools and know that they can sometimes overlook certain past indiscretions when evaluating a candidate for admission. I would contact the osteopathic schools you’re interested in and ask if having failed out of an MD medical school would immediately disqualify you. I think some will say they’d disqualify you and others will tell you to apply and see what happens. I am not familiar with dental school admissions when it comes to a former med student applying — that’s a pretty rare situation — so I can’t comment on that. Like everything else, I’d call and ask.

You’re in a tough, but not insurmountable, situation. Good luck to you.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[twu]

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Originally posted by gregnabers

I am just trying to assess how competitive my application is for Med school. My GPA is not that great at 3.0, Although I have not taken the official MCAT my scores on practice test have consistently been 11’s or 12’s. I have two bachelors degrees one in health science and one in nursing. I am 26 and have worked in a hospital setting for a little over 2 years. Any information on how competitive this makes my application as well as any advice to enhance my chances of acceptance would be greatly appreciated.

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The data available concerning GPAs shows that the middle fifty percent of all matriculants to medical school have a GPA of 3.55-3.56. A 3.0 puts you at a significant disadvantage in admissions, as you now fall below the 20% mark. Approximately 20% of matriculants have a GPA of 3.3 or below. Your MCAT scores, provided that they’d be in the 11s and 12s, will help you tremendously.

But of course all this data doesn’t take into account that you may have a 3.0 because of some really tough program. A degree in “health science” can be competitive if it’s something along the lines of biomedical engineering.

The fact is that given just two aspects of your application it’ll be difficult to assess your chances accurately. I think you can get in, but that all depends on what the rest of your application looks like. Having been a nurse will help you to some degree, but have you actually shadowed a physician? Have you participated in research? Have you volunteered in other capacities toward human good? What do you do in the hospital? Unfortunately there’s a lot you cannot reasonably convey in this forum, but I can tell you that you have a chance at going to medical school.

Good luck to you.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[luu2k4]

Hello Consultants,

im a bio major at UCI, and i recently recieved a C+ in Chem 1b, im a freshman and this was my second quarter of my college career. i know i can do much better in chem 1c this spring quarter. im really going to work for an A,.i was just wondering if i just killed myself by getting this c+, ive been very worried about this. i did get As in my bio classes so far, and i was wondering did this little bump in my record really hurt my chances. also one of my parents is a doctor, and since i dont really come from a disadvantaged background financially does that hurt me? i decided to become a doctor by observing what my does for a living, and should i try shawdowing a docor who is not a parent? im really upset about my C+ because i should of done better, im just hoping this doesnt ruin my chances at a medical school. and i also was wondering, i want to go Loma Linda University for Medical school, and im hoping that C+ won’t kill me, i know i still have a lot ahead of me in my college career, but im just scared that C+ will come back to haunt me.

allo

[twu]

quote:

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Originally posted by luu2k4

im a bio major at UCI, and i recently recieved a C+ in Chem 1b, im a freshman and this was my second quarter of my college career. i know i can do much better in chem 1c this spring quarter. im really going to work for an A,.i was just wondering if i just killed myself by getting this c+, ive been very worried about this. i did get As in my bio classes so far, and i was wondering did this little bump in my record really hurt my chances. also one of my parents is a doctor, and since i dont really come from a disadvantaged background financially does that hurt me? i decided to become a doctor by observing what my does for a living, and should i try shawdowing a docor who is not a parent? im really upset about my C+ because i should of done better, im just hoping this doesnt ruin my chances at a medical school. and i also was wondering, i want to go Loma Linda University for Medical school, and im hoping that C+ won’t kill me, i know i still have a lot ahead of me in my college career, but im just scared that C+ will come back to haunt me.

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One grade won’t keep you out of medical school. The trick is to do well in the remainder of your premedical curriculum. You can negate that C+ to some degree by doing well on the MCAT Physical Sciences section, which includes chemistry, and showing that the rest of your academic career is relatively spotless. Remember that a single grade neither makes nor destroys a premedical career.

Your motivation for medicine is easy to discern, and I’m sure your personal statement will somehow incorporate your MD parent in some capacity, but my advice would be to try and separate yourself — at least on paper — from your MD parent. The problem you run the risk of is having your parent appear to be the SOLE motivating factor for choosing medicine, and that’s a turn-off for the AdComs. What you should do is shadow a physician who is not related to you.

Good luck.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[Boku]

Thank you for answering questions on this forum. Really I have two questions for you:

I graduated from a state University w/ a 3.44 in Japanese (worked full time all last year, lost two points on gpa). I am currently evaluating postbac. premedical programs (particularly Goucher, Bryn Mawr, and Bennington). Can you give me some idea as to what postbac. programs place well (I have their self-provided stats). How are postbac. grads viewed?

I am having difficulty getting a feel for how Bennington’s program is view, can you comment on it at all?

[twu]

quote:

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Originally posted by Boku

I graduated from a state University w/ a 3.44 in Japanese (worked full time all last year, lost two points on gpa). I am currently evaluating postbac. premedical programs (particularly Goucher, Bryn Mawr, and Bennington). Can you give me some idea as to what postbac. programs place well (I have their self-provided stats). How are postbac. grads viewed?

I am having difficulty getting a feel for how Bennington’s program is view, can you comment on it at all?

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There is essentially little bias toward those who take the post-baccalaureate route to medicine. There is some concern, however, when the applicant is a little older, but for the most part post-bacc applicants are welcome. The numbers that some programs post regarding their placement percentages may not be telling you the entire story. There are certain programs that will hold a potential applicant from applying because they don’t feel the applicant would get in, thus keeping their numbers somewhat inflated.

Certain post-bacc programs have what’s called “linkage” programs where top-notch post-bacc students have a guaranteed spot in an associated medical school. The general rule is if the post-bacc program is at a strong undergraduate college, then generally the program will place well. Remember to also consider going to a program at a larger university with an associated medical school as this will offer you some advantages over the competition.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[flcn8404]

Hi

I have a unique situation that i have not seen addressed so far. First, the good: I am a 31 year old grad student and will be recieving my Phd in molecular biology next year. I have volunteered for several hours a week at the local trauma center for about 3 years. I will have excellent letters of recomendation. I have done extensive tutoring both as an undergrad and grad as well as teaching experience as a TA. Iworked for a year in pharm. industry. i am the Graduate student Rep in my Dept and am on a committee to revamp the health insurance for our school as well as the grad student senate. I have a research fellowship, 3.7GPA and several publications in the pipeline.
Now the Bad: I floundered as an undergrad(F’s D’s C’s) and only got into grad school due to my improvement in my last two years and GRE scores. I spent 3 yrears in engineering before switching to bio and did rather poorly. Once in Bio i did well and rebounded nicely my last two years. Overall undergrad GPA was around 3.0. And second, i only earned a 26 (7ps,8vr and 11bs) on the Mcat. I am pimarily looking at WI state schools which accept approx. half of all residents who apply. Any insight you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

[twu]

quote:

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Originally posted by flcn8404

I have a unique situation that i have not seen addressed so far. First, the good: I am a 31 year old grad student and will be recieving my Phd in molecular biology next year. I have volunteered for several hours a week at the local trauma center for about 3 years. I will have excellent letters of recomendation. I have done extensive tutoring both as an undergrad and grad as well as teaching experience as a TA. Iworked for a year in pharm. industry. i am the Graduate student Rep in my Dept and am on a committee to revamp the health insurance for our school as well as the grad student senate. I have a research fellowship, 3.7GPA and several publications in the pipeline.
Now the Bad: I floundered as an undergrad(F’s D’s C’s) and only got into grad school due to my improvement in my last two years and GRE scores. I spent 3 yrears in engineering before switching to bio and did rather poorly. Once in Bio i did well and rebounded nicely my last two years. Overall undergrad GPA was around 3.0. And second, i only earned a 26 (7ps,8vr and 11bs) on the Mcat. I am pimarily looking at WI state schools which accept approx. half of all residents who apply. Any insight you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

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Those two years in which you had relative difficulty in your classes will pale in comparison, to some degree, with what you’ve accomplished since then. The AdComs are keen on applicants who show continued improvement. The fact that you’ve progressed well through a PhD program is impressive.

None of this negates the fact that you received Cs, Ds, and Fs as an undergraduate, however, and you must be prepared to answer questions regarding the reasons why you fared so poorly as a freshman and sophomore in an engineering program.

What is a little disappointing is the MCAT of 26. The fact that you received an 11 in the Biological Sciences section should be no surprise to the AdComs — you have a PhD in Molecular Biology. The problem lies in the fact that you received a 7 in the Physical Sciences, which seems to correlate with your historical weakness in the mathematics-based sciences — you did poorly as an undergraduate engineering major.

Though Wisconsin state schools, like most state schools, have a habit of admitting a lot of their in-state applicants, you need to pick up that MCAT to make yourself competitive. A 30 or above would put you right on the competitive borderline.

The PhD in Molecular Biology does help your application somewhat, however, you will be asked why you went through a PhD program and now want to go get an MD. Is research or academic medicine in your future? If not, the AdComs will want to know why not and how that PhD will come in handy.

Good luck to you and let us know if we can be of further help.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[flcn8404]

Dr. Wu
Thank you for your reply. I have retaken the MCAT this last Saturday and feel I was better prepared for the physical science section. Hopefully my score will go up at least a couple points. Since I do have a atypical application, I may seek your services in the future.

Thanks again
Dan

[md2005]

Hi Tim

I”m writing to get an honest assessment about my medical school candidacy. I feel that I am a strong candidate, but in case I have a case of delusion of grandeur, I would love to get your feedback.

academic:
undergrad: 3.95/4.0 GPA from University of Wisconsin-Madison, BS in Chemical Engineering /Biochem
grad: 3.83/4.0 from Harvard/MIT, PhD in Biomedical Engineering (significant number of courses in the HST program at HMS)
current job is a postdoctoral fellow.

extracurricular:
Given that I did a PhD, I have significant amount of research experience. Outside of scientific research, I have been involved in growing two start-ups. The first one was a part of the entrepreneurship lab program at MIT. Currently, I’m consulting (unpaid) for a second start-up. The company’s leading product is an aerosol that prevents/eliminates airborne infectious diseases. During the course of my market research, I became aware of the tremendous challenge facing the patients in impoverished nations…this is how my decision to apply to med school crystallized.

Beside the business aspect of things, I maintain 6x a week, 2.5 hours a day yoga practice. My teacher asked me to apprentice with him and I currently volunteer to teach yoga. Although this is not a traditional clinical experience, I feel privileged that I can contribute to others’ mental and physical well-being…and I cannot think of a better context to cultivate certain facets of leadership skills: empathy, communication skills, and ability to work with people from all kinds of background.

I’ll be taking the MCAT in August.

My concerns are
i) Aug. test date
ii) I’m a bit older than most applicant. (I’m 29.)
iii) I’m not a US citizen or permanent resident. I’m planning to apply to private schools. I have looked at the admission pages on most of them, and it seems that they will at least *consider* foreign applicant. But I’m not sure whether this is more of a lip service.

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

[LAJane]

Hi Admissions Consultants, I was wondering if I could get some general feedback:

I have a low GPA and MCAT scores (3.1 and 27Q) but a 4.0 in an MPH program that I’m currently in. I have been working in research for six years (through college and after) and have several publications (including a recent one in science) but none as first author. I want to apply to MD-PhD programs but am afraid that they are too competitive and I have no chance and will be at a disadvantage for MD programs. Should I apply to MD-PhD with the hopes that my research qualifications will be enough or just stick with the MD programs and apply for the MD-PhD during my first year if I can get into med school? Any advice would be appreciated.

[twu]

quote:

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Originally posted by md2005

My concerns are
i) Aug. test date
ii) I’m a bit older than most applicant. (I’m 29.)
iii) I’m not a US citizen or permanent resident. I’m planning to apply to private schools. I have looked at the admission pages on most of them, and it seems that they will at least *consider* foreign applicant. But I’m not sure whether this is more of a lip service.

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I apologize for the late reply.

Though you did not make mention of your premed coursework, I am making the assumption that your premed courses (Bio, Chem, Orgo, & Physics) were all finished with As or B+s.

Generally applicants should shoot for the April exam because of its inherent timing advantages. April test-takers get their scores back in June, around the time the AMCAS opens and the application cycle st arts, and April test-takers can review their scores and, if unsatisfied, have time to study and re-take the exam in August. The difficulty a lot of applicants face with the April exam has to do with the end of May and finals approaching and, as is the case with most premeds, applicants are usually in the middle of Physics or Organic Chemistry while studying for the April exam.

It sounds like you’ve been doing well both as an undergraduate and as a graduate student. Assuming that you also performed well in your premedical courses, you’re in a good position. Your job is to now validate your high GPA with a good MCAT score and the only way to do that is study. The AdComs will review your AMCAS in June when you send it in and they will likely be impressed by it. The only thing missing at that point will be your August MCAT, scores from which they’ll receive in or around October. It will be then that they’ll likely make a move on whether or not to invite you for an interview. I don’t believe you’re a borderline applicant. If you were a borderline applicant, with a GPA closer to 3.5, the best option would have been to take the April MCAT. In your case I would not worry so much about the August MCAT.

Being an older applicant was a disadvantage at some point in the history of medical school admissions, but that’s quickly changing. The average age for matriculants to medical school is rising. AdComs are looking at applicants with varying backgrounds more closely. I would not worry about being 29 and an appliacnt to medical school. One of the oldest medical students I remember is a 54 year-old gentleman here in New York.

With regard to your residency status the AAMC does not have an official policy on admission of non-resident students. Each school apparently has its own policy. My informal poll of the New York State medical schools revealed that the majority of them do consider applicants who are neither US citizens nor permanent residents (i.e., green-card holders).

Good luck to you.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[twu]

quote:

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Originally posted by LAJane

I have a low GPA and MCAT scores (3.1 and 27Q) but a 4.0 in an MPH program that I’m currently in. I have been working in research for six years (through college and after) and have several publications (including a recent one in science) but none as first author. I want to apply to MD-PhD programs but am afraid that they are too competitive and I have no chance and will be at a disadvantage for MD programs. Should I apply to MD-PhD with the hopes that my research qualifications will be enough or just stick with the MD programs and apply for the MD-PhD during my first year if I can get into med school? Any advice would be appreciated.

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I apologize for the late reply.

MD/PhD programs are highly competitive because of the relatively few positions and the fact that these are full-ride seats that even pay you for attending class. GENERALLY speaking, a 3.1 GPA and 27 on the MCAT are quite frankly not competitive for MD/PhD programs nor are those numbers very competitive for an MD program.

Keep in mind, however, the many factors that go into the med school admissions formula. Numbers, though important, are not the be-all and end-all of med school admissions. Your coursework, if it was particularly heavy, may impact that AdCom’s feeling about your GPA. If you had a very rigorous major as an undergraduate at an ultra-competitive college or university (e.g., physics at MIT), that 3.1 may actually be very impressive to the AdComs.

In your case the best thing to do is to apply to a straight MD program and, during your first year, hope to get into the MD/PhD program.

Bear in mind, however, that an MD/PhD can be a six to ten year affair. Why do you want a PhD?

Good luck to you.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

[jaidev86]

Could you please give me a list of aamc schools that do not require the mcats. Thanks..

Jaidev

[twu]

quote:

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Originally posted by jaidev86

Could you please give me a list of aamc schools that do not require the mcats. Thanks.

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The majority of AAMC medical schools require the MCAT as an admission requirement. There are fewer than five, I believe, that don’t require the MCAT and the only two that come to mind are Brown University and either the University of Rochester or Georgetown.

In any event, the complete list of AAMC schools that don’t require the MCAT can be found on the AAMC website or through the AAMC’s annual pubilcation of Medical School Admissions Requirements (MSAR).

Good luck to you.

Timothy Wu, MD
AdmissionsConsultants
703.242.5885

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